The Return of the Circular Firing Squad

22 Jul

I spend a lot of time yelling at people online for insisting men can decide to become women. As an equal opportunity yeller, I’m calling this out too.

“white male activists of every stripe, but especially the enviros and liberal progressives like DGR males (no matter what you call yourselves, and no, you arent radical) could do something about this if they wanted to. but they arent, even though they arent generally opposed to doing both underground and above board “actions” designed to bring XYZ to its knees.”

What the fuck are you talking about? Liberal? Do you even know what that word means?

“it apparently doesnt occur to these white male pig activists to “start” by neutralizing their own personal brute squad, but it wouldnt, would it?”

What the actual fuck are you talking about? Do you just go around randomly making shit up to get attention now?

“you are disgusting fucking cowards who get off on images of black women being brutalized by other white males, and you and only you benefit when a black woman is killed for calling a white male pig a coward and a pussy.

you dont actually want it to stop. but you know that already. and so do i.”

This is completely insane. You don’t have anybody better to do than go after than men who are actually trying to help? Too much time on your hands? Too scary to go after the real bad guys?

You know who’s a fucking coward? You are, FCM. My sheroes are bloggers who get out there in MRA’s faces, in person, with their own names and their own faces. You aren’t even on the bottom of my list. You should be ashamed of yourself.


21 Responses to “The Return of the Circular Firing Squad”

  1. hartjangling 2015/07/23 at 12:21 am #

    I was confused when I saw that post come up. Like, this sounds like a reference to Sandra Bland’s murder, but I don’t get the leap to blaming white male activists.


    • Miep 2015/07/23 at 12:29 am #

      I’m reacting to singling out DGR men so specifically. This is just more of the “all men are evil” trope. The agenda here is not to address how all men benefit as a class from male privilege, it’s to accuse all men who behave decently and try to be good, ethical activists, of having a scurrilous hidden agenda that harms women. Also this business of calling DGR men liberal and then also suggesting they want to engage in above and underground efforts to overthrow stuff is laughably sloppy writing.

      FCM has published some great stuff in the past, but this kind of thing is just embarrassing.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Miep 2015/07/23 at 1:21 am #

      Leftist men and liberal men aren’t the same thing, and men in DGR who tend to stay in DGR aren’t too impressed by either. I am expressing umbrage at using them as examples, at suggesting that they are part and parcel of the usual misogynist pack of leftists and the neoliberals passing themselves off as liberals.

      Liked by 2 people

  2. Elle Kacee 2015/07/23 at 1:13 am #

    I actually agree with her. I didn’t read her as blaming them for committing murder, but she’s right that the white males on the left (insert “liberal” jab because they’re not left enough) don’t do as much as they could to fight our white supremacist patriarchy, and that lack of action stems directly from the fact that they benefit from living in it.

    The whole “invisible knapsack” of privilege and whatnot ought to be unpacked by the time men reach this level of leftness, I guess, and I’ve yet to see the men on the left do that. It’s still a one-off (in that I haven’t met any) to find a “liberal” guy who isn’t a raging misogynist and absolutely clueless about it.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Miep 2015/07/23 at 1:22 am #

      And the bit about getting off on black women being abused was especially disgusting. I would have ignored the post if it wasn’t for that.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Elle Kacee 2015/07/23 at 2:23 am #

        I can’t speak to whether they get off on it, but they don’t care enough to do the work it’d take to change things. In the end, though, what’s the difference? I’m not going to quibble over what level of OK they are with black women being abused. Being on that chart at all is an indictment.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Miep 2015/07/23 at 2:27 am #

          This is hard for me because Derrick’s a friend, and I do think he does the best he can to stop the murder train, but he has his own limitations, as do we all.

          Thanks for your input.


          • Elle Kacee 2015/07/23 at 2:36 am #

            While I 100% get what you’re saying, it sounds an awful lot like “#NotAllMen.” I have a sneaking feeling they don’t need you to defend them.


          • Miep 2015/07/23 at 2:41 am #

            I defend my friends, regardless of their bits. Derrick was there for me during a hard part of my life, and getting to know him via correspondence wound up being my road to radical feminism. He was the first person I learned from about boundaries being absolute, he really had my back. And I was a stranger, I was just someone on the Internet.

            It’s personal.


          • Elle Kacee 2015/07/23 at 5:01 am #

            Totally get that. I’m not attached to DGR in any way so my comments are the opposite of personal–a noting of patterns I’ve observed in a large group (white, liberal men–not DGR specifically). Of course individuals will vary but, then again, as long as the pattern remains intact, group analysis will continue to happen and pressure should continue to be put on the individuals (by the people who know them, I’d say, not random e-haters) to work on changing these group-level patterns from within.

            I guess the point I got from the post was, “You’re doing a shit job at this. Are you even trying? I don’t think you’re trying.” And, as a group, they aren’t.


  3. Miep 2015/07/23 at 1:29 am #

    If FCM or any woman wants to make various statements generalizing about men, I’m not going to address it, but when she uses as examples men who actually do make an effort to stand up against the worst male offenders, and get seriously attacked for it, including no platformed, reactions that affect them personally in an adverse manner, I’m not okay with that. It serves no useful purpose, it’s divisive, it’s intellectually sloppy and egotistical. Also included is a tendency to trash by association any woman who is friends with any of these men.

    And FCM’s slam includes zero evidence to support her picking on DGR men. When I get mad at someone, I am very specific about what I am angry about. I don’t just slander them vaguely and anonymously on the Internet.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. Miep 2015/07/23 at 1:34 am #

    Go tell Kourtney Mitchell’s mother that he gets off on seeing black women getting abused. I’ll get the popcorn.


  5. Miep 2015/07/23 at 1:46 am #

    Here’s an excellent example of one of those horrible DGR guys hating on women.

    Liked by 1 person

  6. Miep 2015/07/23 at 1:48 am #

    And then there’s “The Knitting Needle Rapist Annihilation Squad,” that’s so anti-woman.

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Miep 2015/07/23 at 2:50 am #

    My brother suggested I read End Game, and I did. Then I found Derrick’s page and got more interested in DGR, and then I found out about Lierre and her work. Then I read about DGR people being attacked by trans supporters, and then I read gendertrender for a long time. I kept reading and exploring. But it was Derrick’s kind support that nudged me into all this.

    This is my life. This is my story. I won’t step back from it. I can’t.

    Liked by 1 person

  8. hartjangling 2015/07/23 at 10:53 am #

    I get the anger; when white men do these horrible things, I look at the white men around me and wonder if they’re evil too. Many of them are. Especially the liberal men, who think not wanting to actively rape a woman means they’re special and enlightened.

    But in critical analysis, privilege is not equivalent to power. If even just 25% of all men were DGR or the equivalent, then yes, they’d have the power to force more changes and we could blame them if they failed to take a stand. But they’re not that common and they do take a stand. By lumping in DGR with liberals, the original post is inflating the number of actual pro-woman anti-racism activists artificially. That poster is taking that artificial number and using it to bash DGR for not saving these women. It is laying the blame, not on the evil bastards who are doing it, but on a third party, just because both groups contain white men. That makes no sense to me.

    Maybe the original poster saw a comment or joke made by a DGR member. If so, they should have screencapped it so the rest of could rip it apart. They should have sent it to Lierre so she could personally had the bastard his ass.

    Patriarchy is designed to make resistors powerless, ineffectual, and isolated; blaming other resistors for this situation is bizarre.


  9. Miep 2015/07/23 at 3:30 pm #

    Men like Jonah and Derrick and Kourtney set good examples for other men with their writing, they seem like lone voices speaking out in the wilderness at times. But there is only so much individuals can do. There are far more men out there selling the usual lies about sex and gender. When women attack men who are making some effort to support women’s causes, and who are already being silenced and censured by other men for doing so, this is unlikely to goad such men on to better efforts. I’m not saying we owe it to any man to play cheerleader, but could we at least refrain from slandering such men with baseless accusations? This seems counterproductive to me, though I’m sure the huge cohort of pornstitution and gender supporters all cheer to see such voices undermined thusly.

    Liked by 1 person

  10. hartjangling 2015/07/24 at 1:06 pm #

    Sorry if I came across as disagreeing with you Miep. I’m disagreeing with FCM.


    • Miep 2015/07/24 at 1:14 pm #

      You didn’t, I was just elaborating further. You made a good point about artificially inflating numbers.

      Liked by 1 person

  11. Dogtowner 2015/07/25 at 4:54 am #

    I am so tired of seeing the few people who resist the flag-waving, military adventurism mentality in the U.S. blamed for not overthrowing it. This same attitude is reflected in FCM’s bashing (not serious criticism, and no examples of supposed misogyny) of DGR — somehow these few men are supposed to overthrow patriarchy in a culture where most people, including women, appear to support it.

    Both Miep and hartjangling make excellent points, which I would like to remember. And as for my analogy, fascist capitalism also renders resisters’ efforts ineffectual on a meaningful scale. The supporters of an extractive, death-dealing economy will also cheer to see DGR bashed and trashed.


    • Miep 2015/07/25 at 5:05 am #

      Thank you. People do what they can. Writing is still possible, active resistance will often get one meaninglessly jailed. Without the support of sufficient numbers, it’s effectively impossible to make significant changes.

      I see feminists saying men should shut up, that women can do it without them. I see women angry at men for not doing enough and targeting men who are at least trying to do something and follow the lead of feminists. But I also see feminists engaging in their own specific and bold projects, putting themselves on the line.

      I suspect it’s kind of always been like this, a lot of angry disparate people who occasionally get together and get things to happen, in pulses.


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